Commandments, Ten

December 28, 2006 5:54pm

Now, I’m no direct translator of Hebrew or whatnot, but while enduring the yearly going to of church for my family’s enjoyment, I took to reading the Ten Commandments, which were stitched so elegantly in tablet-like fashion and hung on the wall. And did you realize that one of those commandments, handed straight down from the big Almight, he who they call I am, Captain Jesus himself, reads “Thou Shalt Not Kill.”

Now, no mind that it doesn’t read “thou shalt not kill humans,” which could easily open up a whole new school of thought (ie, if you believe that the Bible is taken literally, such as the stuff about man not laying with man and how that means gay people shouldn’t vote or whatever the fuck they’re saying these days, then you’re a sinner for eating burgers, but…. I’ll get into that some other day.)

Basically, anyone who goes to war and kills someone is breaking a commandment. And I’d assume there’s some sort of disclaimer that says “If you give a direct order to kill someone, you in turn have killed.”

Visa vi, your President is a hell-bound sumvabitch who God is clearly against. Also, 3000 some soldiers have died. And those are just the guys on our side.

Up Next: A Maple Tree, Chapter 5

Discussion

Rob 28 Dec 2006

The original Hebrew for the 10 Commandments is that one shall not murder. There’s a distinction between kill and murder: killing in self defense was different from sneaking up behind someone and whacking them on the back of the head.

Theologically, I have some distinct trouble with what God permitted, nay ordered, the Hebrews to do in the O.T. Let’s just say “I’ve got questions.”

For Christians, I’d say it’s a bit more complicated.

We are taught to do good for our enemies. We are taught that even calling someone a fool puts us in danger as the same crime as “Don’t murder.”

As a paramedic, I was faced several times with having to use force to protect myself or an innocent. Since I suck at fighting, my best tactic was either to a) fall down, act hurt, and get the assailant feeling like he’d kicked a small puppy and crying “I hardly touched him!” or b) throw my body on top of the innocent and hope it would protect them. Hey, you do what works. I’m still alive, and no one got killed from underneath or behind me.

Would I have used lethal force? In defense of another, I have no doubt. In defense of myself, I’m not so sure, and I have a concealed carry permit. I would do everything I could to avoid it, I know that.

If Bush truly sought to rescue the Iraqi people, then he didn’t do a great job of it, but you can’t fault him on that.

If you’re going to crucify Bush, a better approach would be to complain about what he did to the concept of a “just war” (the Christian version of a Jihad). Through thousands of years, men much smarter than either Bush or myself decided that a pre-emptive attack was not acceptable. Even the Pope himself (the previous one — I’m not sure about the current dude) said that the Iraq war was morally wrong.

Personally, while I don’t like Bush, I’m reluctant to either crucify him or consign him to hell. Crucifixion (and capital punishment in general) strike me as something all Christians ought to oppose, just because we don’t like the outcome of one particular instance. (And yes, this brings up Bush and Karla Faye Tucker.) As far as hell, the more people I can talk into avoiding hell and God out of putting there, the happier I’ll be, especially since I’m concerned with my own fate.

I’ll settle for a nice, embarrassing public impeachment and conviction.

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nathan 29 Dec 2006

Thanks Rob – for the enlightenment on the “murder/kill” aspects particularly. Where do you think that “pre-emptive” falls in those categories? I’m sure either side could debate that one to death, but what’s your opinion?

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Rob 30 Dec 2006

“Just War” theory is sort of like the Trinity. It’s not really in the Bible, but if you study the Bible and try to live it, you either wind up with a theological mess or “Just War” theory and the Trinity.

I’d argue that the result of a pre-emptive war is murder, but some little alarm is going off in the back of my head saying it may be a different problem entirely, sort of an abuse of the authority to govern. That would make it worse, not better. There are some sins us peons simply can’t commit.

I really shouldn’t comment prior to coffee consumption.

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nathan 30 Dec 2006

Interesting about the Trinity not actually being in the Bible. I spent 8 years in a Christian elementary school and probably double that or so actually going to church every Sunday, so I know about what the average guy does about Christianity, but am nowhere near versed in what actually goes on in the Bible vs. what was made up to simply go well with the meal.

I always wonder how much “extra” is stuffed into the Christian experience vs. what the good Lord actually said, and if it is indeed necessary to create extra rituals, rules and sayings to fill in the loopholes that the Bible leaves behind, how far will we go to fix a broken book?

Or is it more likely that the book’s not broken, but the message doesn’t suit the way we’d like to interpret it and so we’re changing it to our benefit?

Well, not “mine” but you get the picture.

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Rob 30 Dec 2006

The Trinity really does make sense, and as a scientist, I have little trouble believing a hyper-intelligent extraterrestrial might be one Being but several Persons. Strangely, as a scientist, the things that people whine about give me no trouble. I’m used to particles that are waves, objects existing in multiple places at once, and the concept that the person who designed a program can pause the program and make it do anything He wants.

Rituals are to give comfort to people, and honestly, there’s something to be said for that. Today’s the 20th anniversary of my Mom’s death in 1986, and I’m probably the only person who remembers. Ritual can be comforting in the face of grief.

Remembering that rituals are not the be-all and end-all is straight out of the Bible. Isaiah said that God wanted poor and the orphans cared for, not rams sacrificed on an altar. Jesus said that, if someone has something against you and you remember this during your 5 minute time slot at the altar, forget the sacrifice and go make it right with that other person. Getting things right with your co-human whom you have seen is not more important than getting things right with God, whom you haven’t seen: it IS getting things right with God.

I’d not dare to presume that I have the only correct interpretation of the Bible and everyone else in the history of Christianity was a bunch of misguided dolts. I might think that (b-slap me for that!), but I also realize that I’m screwed up in my own way, just like everyone else. As a Christian, I need to allow for that. I’m probably wrong about a lot of things, and so I need to act with care so that I don’t harm others by my misunderstandings that I can’t even see.

Unfortunately, we Christians are what people see of God, and our screw-ups and foibles seem to be what they focus on. They see the closeted gay minister hypocrite whose soul is torn in two by what he thinks God wants of him and what his heart says. They see the rich Christians siding with the powerful Christians against the poor and weak, which even a cursory reading of the Bible ought to tell them is not “good.”

People don’t see the homophobe Christian hugging the dying gay HIV patient and crying with him. They don’t see the racist Baptist who risks his own life to save the life of a black person in danger. I’m not saying I approve of their prejudice; I’m saying that it’s God working in them that carries them beyond such failings to true humanity.

When Christianity causes people to rise above who they are for the sake of others, that is when we are at our best and when God is glorified. That we do not do that more often is a great sorrow.

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nathan 31 Dec 2006

All great thoughts. I have given up my whole hearted belief in Jesus and God … or maybe more accurately my belief in religion. I’ve always been sort of a dreaming, magick-believing in kind of person, so the idea that God always was and always will be, or that the Trinity is possible, those were all very easily graspable ideas for me.

I started questioning the validity of the Bible when I found out about predestination (I believe that’s the term) where everyone who is ever going to heaven has already been determined, which I understand that an all knowing God would obviously already know who’s going to do right by him and who isn’t, but something about that didn’t jive with free will… Then I occasionally started going to Catholic shindigs…services, weddings, and just seeing all of the ridiculousness of Catholicism – multi-million dollar churches, priests wearing a fortune’s worth of robes and jewelry (?!) and just all of the kneeling, drinking grape juice, ritual bullarky that just seemed so disillusioning – they barely even had a “message” – just a bunch of singing in Latin and then repeating verses that didn’t even seem to be from the Bible itself.

That’s when I started dabbling in inventing my own religion, both for fun and for a way to give myself the much needed aspect of faith that I think almost everyone gets into any religion for in the first place.

I still respect Christians for having their beliefs, though honestly, they don’t do me the same favor and that angers me to no end. I see Christianity as an excuse for wars, as a reason to keep people segregated, and as a scape goat for forgiveness…that no matter what is done you can be forgiven, which I can’t believe is true.

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Rob 31 Dec 2006

Well, I’d like to think I do the “same favor.” If you follow me around the Internet, you’ll find it’s mostly the Christians and self-righteous that I give crap to.

Christianity isn’t an excuse for wars or to keep people segregated. It’s one of the excuses they use — as is just about any other religion or belief. Even science seems to be headed that way, which is a shame.

And yes, I believe that no matter what is done, you can be forgiven, but that’s no excuse to do those things. And, having done things for which I am forgiven, I still have to live with the fact that I did them.

I do tend to agree with you on the “Christian accessories.” That’s why I go to a church that tends toward the functional. We just raised money to drill a well in Malawi so people can get water. We help fund the orphanage — 10% of the kids in Malawi lost their parents to HIV, and it’s destroying both the kids and the country.

Of course, I do have a $1000+ high power rocket in my garage. So I don’t know how much I can criticize someone for dressing up their minister or priest in expensive robes.

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chad 4 Jan 2007

i’ve recently been listening to a ‘the driven life: the purpose of life from a christian perspective – cd for in the car!’ type cd while in my car. i’d rather listen to talk more than music most of the time. anyway, from this, and from other times the idea has struck or been struck in me, i might be able to wager a thought or so.

one, jesus wouldn’t approve of 90% of churches in how they congregate. so criticizing christians because of their church activity is just to criticize them for the perceived and apparent, uh, righteousness.(?)

the people in those churches most might likely agree that they’re not really up to par at all with how they think god would prefer they gather and pray and worship, but if confronted with criticism, i’d imagine most of them would ruthlessly defend their group – as loyalty is innate to group, generally.

i’d guess, nathan, that you could qualify as a perfect christian while still holding almost all of your personal spiritual beliefs. as the bible seems, maybe, up for interpretation, the best in spirit can find the best in it.

but my still main question, with an eye towards evolution/globabalization type ideas, is why does it have to be just ‘this’. i think i’ll never be able to believe that. and i tend to think that holding that belief may lead to danger.

the bible can be my mode of spirituality, but if i talk to a buddhist, i’d take greatest aim and pleasure to agree with him or her, rather than take any interest in attempting to persuade. so i don’t claim to be a christian. just, that’s my ‘home’. although when i’m young i like to think of my home and parents and family rituals as best, i find life seems more correct when i let go of that idea

though i’m open to being wrong! i just have never had any understanding of why one religion is better. all the words of christ make sense naturally. and i can understand the need to believe before understanding, too. but not in the name of killing or war – though i may be naive to think that it wouldn’t be necessary even though i don’t understand (i’m not directly talking about the current war here)

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nathan 6 Jan 2007

Righty ho! I say to that.

I never really had a problem with Jesus and the good guy that he was, I mean only an asshole would be.

But definitely more against the Church and the idea of persuading people to not only accept your ideas, which is fine in and of itself, but more of preaching to them to not only accept your ideas, but take them on as your own.

I often hear that Christianity is the only religion with such a drastic afterlife consequence such as hell…I think a youth pastor at some point told me that if for any other reason, you should pick Christianity because of that – none of the others have a down side.

That made me laugh and slightly more smug in my enjoying/interpreting this life. Some one else, surely from a TV show or movie, in response to another character asking “Why don’t you care what happens to you in the next life?” and he replied “It’s not that, I just care about what happens to me in this one.”

House, it was.

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chad 11 Jan 2007

hahaha, good ol’ kick ass house

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JesseNewst 9 Mar 2007

I wonder , were to find boyfriend to my sister? Joke:)
My online friends propose this link to use –TOP10 – As for me, I think life is now!!!

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